Monday, February 17, 2014

800m Questions



Well I am not sure exactly what to write about this week, so I thought it would be interesting to bring you guys more history, since well that is my major. If you guys don’t find it enjoyable to read feel free to express as much in the comment section, with appropriate language, thank you.

Since 2006 it has taken sub 1:57.01 to medal at the state meet in the open 800m. I was really surprised by this as I scrolled through state meet results this morning. Rob McNally of Upper Darby ran 1:57.01 to place 8th back in 2006 and he was the slowest 8th place finisher from 2006-2013. This season looks to continue the sub 1:57 medal trend as we have possibly the steepest competition in years going into the state meet. 

Back in 2009 Tom Mallon broke the state record running 1:51.79 in an incredible effort, but this was shown up just two years later as Wade Endress, coming off a Mile victory, just barely broke it, clocking 1:51.73. It was usually quite rare for a runner to break 1:55 indoors until recent years when 2011 started a trend with 4 runners breaking the mark, but last season the boys 800m runners upped the anti with 4 runners breaking 1:54!

What makes this all so amazing is that already this season 3 runners have broken 1:54 in the open 800m, two of them at Lehigh. . . a flat track compared to Penn State’s banked track, along with a 1:53.0 split from Will Cather who has run 1:54.05 in the open 800m on a banked track. Ahead of him is: Joseph Logue (1:53.67B), Kyle Francis (1:53.85), and Jeffrey Wiseman (1:53.95). Amazingly this list does not include 8th place finisher from indoors last season, John Lewis (1:57.19) or outdoor 800m champion Zach Brehm who just negative split a 1:58.41 at Lehigh this past weekend.
Maybe there is something in the water this season with fast times, but this brings up two questions:

1) Will the State Meet Record (1:51.73) be broken?

2) Will 8 runners go under 1:57.02 for the 9th consecutive year?

We still have a few weekends to find out, but here’s how I see it: 3 of the 4 runners (Francis, Wiseman, and Cather) all love to take races out fast, while Logue enjoys sitting back and kicking. Brehm is a big guy who will go with any pace as well. I think there is no doubt we will see this race go out in 53/54 meaning they will need to come back in 57/58 to get the record. For this group, that seems quite possible, but we have to remember that this time would be a PR for any of these runners other than Logue who ran 1:51.59 outdoors two years ago.

As far as the 8 runners under 1:57 it seems we have 5 guys going for the Meet Record so I put all of them under 1:57. John Lewis broke it last season as he placed 8th, but I see him running in the open 400m, so I doubt we’ll see him race the open 800m because it makes more sense for his team’s points. That leaves us with the following possibilities: Alek Sauer (1:57.17), Dylin Wilhoite (1:57.82), Nick Smart (1:58.02), Kyle Adams (1:58.07), Graham Allen (1:58.79), Frank Brophy (1:58.84), and Joe Sullivan (1:59.23).

Pennsbury runners do quite well for themselves at track states and Sauer has looked very strong all season, plus he would only need to drop .18 off his PB this season. Behind him is Wilhoite who looks to continue the strength of Penn Hills at the state meet over the 800m distance. These boys always seem to peak well at states and he needs just under a second to drop. 

Nick Smart has run very even all season and split 1:56 earlier this season on a relay and has run some very even splits to get that 1:58. On a fast pace with his speed/strength combo this XC medalist should be in a good position to break 1:57 as well. That gives us 3 strong candidates, but are there some other runners who could step up if a wrench is thrown into the race? Kyle Adams has split 1:57 already this season and ran that open time in December. His team is looking for a top 3 finish and the points could be valuable, so look for him to run gutsy.

 Frank Brophy is a 400m runner converted to the 800m which I always like to see and has had a strong season so far, despite only running the event once. He could have a huge breakout race and surprise everyone if he can put everything together over half a mile. Joe Sullivan also has a PR of 1:56.94, and not to forget Malvern Prep’s Dan Ferraiolo who has had an up and down season, but does hold a PR of 1:55.80 and is qualified for the state meet, so watch for him as a sleeper…

--ForrestCRN

27 comments:

  1. Quickly: No, the record won't be broken (but I hope it is) and yes, it will take faster than 1:57 to medal. I'm calling Cather, Francis, Logue and Wiseman (alphabetical order) top 4 and Cather with a somewhat surprising win. If not, SC will win the 4x8. Also, I would never bet against Brehm, I think he'll be somewhere from 5-8, and then win the 800 or 1600 outdoors.

    Switching gears, I was wondering if you guys could post any college commitments that you know of (your own or others, any Division) that are not listed on milesplit. I am a junior right now, so I don't have one yet, I'm just curious!

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  2. Forrest can you get video coverage or interviews?

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  3. This blog is in the gutter

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    1. then don't read it

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    2. It's nothing wrong with Forrest its the comments... They're absurd

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  4. dude you play favorites

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    1. Glad someone else called him on this. It's blatant.

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    2. who's he favoring?

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    3. Who is he playing favorites to? I'm curious as well.

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    4. No names please. Let's just say a lot of the Bucks County crowd.

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    5. Then write about your own favorites.

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    6. What's the matter with having favorites?
      Works for me.
      -Don R.

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    7. There's nothing wrong with favoring a few kids, he has the right to favor whoever he wants it's his blog and plus I like hearing someone else's opinion, even if it can be a bit biased

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    8. He's allowed to play favorites with the CRN kids, they're good. He covers them as in-depth as everyone else.

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  5. States is looking anti-climatic in the distance events this year. Lewis out of the 800, not much going on in the mile with Brehm and Abert still not at top form and the 3000 is a real yawner, they may have to drop the SQL just to fill the field. Maybe the 4x800 will bring some excitement.

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    1. If you consider 3 giys under 1:54 already in the 800 and russel having a shot at sub 4:10 "anti-climatic" then yeah i guess it is but otherwise those two races will be great to watch.

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    2. Plus possible new indoor state records on the DMR and 4x800

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  6. Forrest, any possibility of a "One Mile Questions"?

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  7. So my coach is basically mailing it in. Individually and as a team we aren't making any improvements-this coach is just going through the motions acting more like a disgruntled
    babysitter than anything else.
    Does anyone know how I go about finding a private coach and about how much I can expect to pay for that? I am in District 1 for reference. I really don't think the current coach would even care. In fact, he'd probably be happy having one less kid to coach.
    I know this seems weird to post on here but I am feeling desperate. I love running and am decent and feel strongly that I have the potential to be much more than that with some dedicated coaching. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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    1. That sucks and is a real problem for some programs. It’s amazing that some schools are good every year while a school of the same size, same area, maybe even same town, have a disappointing team every year. It’s terrible that kids with potential and the willingness to work hard put their faith in a coach who turns out to be a real lemon. And most athletic directors don’t pay attention to the running programs since they’ve got to constantly kiss butt of the parents of the big sports.

      That said, there is hope. Get a good training program off the internet. Always follow your coaches program but supplement it as needed. For example, if it's XC and he’s the guy who says “go run for an hour” then ducks into the lounge while you’re doing it, take advantage of that run by adding in some tempo work, intervals or hills. If there's no meet on the weekend try to get someone to do a track workout with you. Also, maybe find a running club to hook up with for some group training. Local 5K’s are always a good way to get nice pace work in, though it will cost you to run them.

      Another option is to man up and confront the guy, individually or as a team. There’s plenty of coach candidates who would love a shot so let him know if he won’t take it seriously he’s not earning his money and should step aside. Or go to the Athletic Director, if there’s enough noise he’ll have to respond. Good luck. -JEB

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    2. What events do you run?

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    3. Find a team that will take you in during the summer training. The Hoey boys and Kienzle run with Henderson in the summer. Depending on where you live, I'm sure most teams would welcome you to train with them. Or, talk to one of the good coaches in your area for advice. It's hard to get rid of bad coaches.

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    4. Thanks for your replies. I was lucky this summer to run with a college bound freshman runner (who didn't go to my school)average 4x a week. I was on my own rest of time until August. I have researched and found some good ideas for workouts. Even gone so far as to have my dad take me to another schools track to do workouts. He doesn't know squat about running but he knows how to work a stopwatch and drive a car.
      Coach is best buds with AD and I think people have gone that route before and it was a waste of time.
      Coach doesn't even respect the sport-he thinks we're all misfits who didn't make other sports teams, which is not true. I think Coach would be mad if I tried to train with another high school team since he has an image to uphold. That's why I asked about private coaching.
      I have run nearly every event there is including hurdles. I am most competitive in the mid-distance events-800, 1600 and even 3200. He keeps throwing me in sprints though. I think that is what is frustrating. He doesn't give me chances. I have run State Qualifying times in the mile on the track more than once in a practice but have not even run the mile in a meet. So frustrating. Thanks for your help and encouragement. I am determined to get past this.

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    5. Dude, if you're running state qualifying times in the mile in practice and your coach isn't running you in it at meets, then he is more of a nitwit than you have described. A 4:24 on an outdoor track at practice is like 4:18 or better at a big meet. Now you're talking about scratching the surface of possible college interest.

      You only go through high school once so you deserve better. Get your old man to use that car and drive over to the athletic director and tell him politely what the deal is. If the coach is that incompetent it should be easy to present the facts to the AD, especially if the team consistently underperforms.

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    6. Apparently the AD doesn't care, or else he would have taken care of the problem already. Respectfully ask your coach to run the mile. If the coach don't care, he will put you in. If he doesn't put you in, he cares (maybe you did something to piss him off?)

      You could also look for some meets to run as an individual (maybe one of the Friday night Henderson meets?)

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    7. Thanks again for your advice. If I pissed him off it's only because my interest in running is greater than his. Indoor is pretty much over for my team but I wanted to be in the best position possible to have a productive outdoor season and make sure I don't miss out on any opportunities. We don't do nearly enough good meets so I will (with my Dad) be talking to someone about stepping up to do these meets.
      I just thought if I had an experienced coach who knew what he was talking about, he could have my back or help me convince Coach of my intentions.

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  8. If anyone else was having trouble commenting from an iPhone then use chrome rather that safari, it worked for me

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