Ches-Mont Results
One of the fun things I get to do
here is look back at what I got right and what I got wrong when I was doing my
Ches-Mont previews in August, so there’s a fair amount of reference to my
August posts in this post.
In August I wrote that Josh Smith,
Alex Knapp and Eric Diestelow are “the top 3 guys in Ches-Monts competing for
individual champion.” Well Henry Sappey proved me wrong. Major props to him. I
initially put him at 10th saying “Here’s my sleeper pick of the
list… I think Sappey may challenge for the top spot on D-West’s squad and could
surprise by running under 16:00 (at Lehigh), but I will predict him at between
16:05 and 16:10.” He already had the sub-16 (a 15:56 effort at Carlisle) and
now he takes first in the Ches-Mont. This has been his breakout year and I
can’t wait to see how he finishes it up in the next couple of weeks.
So running down the individual top
10 list: (with my August ranking in parentheses)
1.
Henry Sappey, DTW, 16:20 (10)
2.
Alex Knapp, WCH, 16:21 (2)
A good race for Knapp. He’s improved steadily after a bit of a slow start
to the season.
3.
Eric Diestelow, WCE, 16:28 (1)
Much the same of what I said for Knapp. He’s been improving these past
few weeks and should be ready to break 16 or lower at Districts.
4.
Will Swart, WCH, 16:34 (9)
Will Swart had a great day. He ran a two-second PR at a slow course and
placed top 5, beating out several guys who had run faster than him this season.
5.
Jack Carmody, WC Rustin, 16:41 (7)
Don’t know what happened to him at Paul Short (16:59), but he bounced
back nicely with a 10:01 at the Henderson two mile and followed that up with a
solid race here.
6.
Ryan Barton, DTW, 16:44 (6)
A good time for Ryan Barton as it matches his season best, but his
performance was bigger in the team race: He beat out two Henderson guys while
Downingtown West won by only two points, his placement really made a key
difference for them.
7.
Spencer Smucker, WCH, 16:46 (Unranked, because he’s a freshman)
Top 10 for a freshman is always big. If he keeps this up he’ll be a big
player in the future of not just Henderson but the Ches-Mont as well.
8.
Gordy Barchet, WCH, 16:48 (4)
Solid effort for him today. The big question though will be can he beat
his sophomore district time of 16:08.
9.
Charlie Barton, DTW, 16:48 (Guys to Watch List)
Charlie Barton also had a good race today, running 17 seconds faster than
he had at Carlisle
10.
Keelan O’Reilly, DTE, 16:49 (Guys to Watch List)
A pretty solid effort for DT East’s
top guy. Come districts he should be competing for his spot on the line at
Hershey, and I think he’ll get it.
*Overall I think I did a pretty
decent job with my predictions. Henry Sappey and Will Swart both ran much
better than I expected and also Josh Smith (I had him at 3) and Drew Alansky
(5) went down with injuries so they couldn’t live up to their potential this
season. But as I said back then “Also look out for a couple of guys coming out
of nowhere to break out this season, that always seems to happen.” That
happened to some extent with Sappey and with Smucker.
On the team side, Downingtown West
with a dramatic two point win over Henderson! Henderson came ready to roll at
this meet, but their number 5 killed them and Downingtown West snatched away
the title. I had predicted D-West to win it this year, but I didn’t think
Henderson would be as close as they were, they really went down fighting. D-West
should be able to grab a team ticket to states, and Henderson might be able to
as well, they’re certainly in the discussion. Rustin, Coatesville and Shanahan
rounded out the top 5. These programs have really come along well this year and
have been doing some good things. When I was running in the Ches-Mont these
teams were struggling a bit, but times have changed and now they’re becoming
schools to look for moving forward.
-Cummings
Diestelow is clearly training to peak at the right time. It's a bold prediction, but I am saying he pulls a huge upset and takes the District 1 title.
ReplyDelete^ Agree, it's all about peaking at the right time.
DeleteI can see it too. I think he has learned the rights and wrongs from Cummings and he's clearly benefitted from not doing too much too early.
DeleteWCH is probably disappointed, with a race that close and their tradition it’s easy to find what-ifs. Big day for Swart, they’re looking strong for districts and if Barchet drops a little more and their 5-6 pick it up, they’re in great shape. Carmody probably went out too hard at Short and paid for it but he ran a nice even race today, and Rustin picking up 3rd is pretty impressive since aside from Carmody they didn’t have a great day, though Cook and Hontz were solid. Dwest silenced a lot of doubters. Beating WCH at Chesmonts is huge. And with their 8th guy running away with the JV race they got some tough decisions for Districts, though in a good way. Real nice races out of sophs O’Neil and Bullock. Dwest is a team for today but their future looks real good too. WCH and Dwest look good at districts, Rustin and Coatesville though are long, long shots for states.
ReplyDelete- JEB
Since Chesmonts have been held at Unionville, this year had the most optimal running weather. I recall one year being hot and the next (last year, maybe?) like running in quicksand. So times should have been, and for the most part were, substantially better this year.
DeleteNo one should be making excuses. Most of the top teams are healthy and benefitted from great race day course conditions.
Two years ago was the "quicksand day" and last year was a little bit nicer than this year. It was just a little soft but no problem areas this year.
DeleteHaving run all 3 years, this years Chesmonts was definitely the best. Not only was the course changed a little, but the weather was perfect-cool and cloudy. I think I had heard the previous 2 years, Unionville's course was slightly over 5k. This year it was shorter.
DeleteThat's not entirely true. It has always been a wheel measured 5k. In fact, the original course was probably faster the way it was layed out, but that was the year it poured for two days leading up to the race.
DeleteIt has always been long, look at the comparison for district times to that course, if you have ever run there than you would know the chesmont course is not any hillier than lehigh. We all know lehigh is a 5k. If lehigh times are legit, the course difficulty (hillyness) is the same and weather conditions are similar (which they have been the last 2 years), than how can you explain the massive drop in time to districts for virtually every runner? The course is definitely long.
Delete^Exactly.
Delete1. The chesmont course is exactly the same as it was last year.
Delete2. The third mile has a decent sized hill, which makes the third mile the slowest by far. Districts on the other hand gets the hill over with early so you can coast the third mile no matter how tired you are.
3. The footing at Chesmonts isn't good. Districts on the other hand is like running on a golf course. Those two factors attribute to the time differences as well as peaking for a more important race.
Ok i see your points here but i just ran at chesmomts and i was in the boys jv race, which runs 2nd to last, so you think the footing would be worse, but i didnt think it was bad at all, still not as good as lehigh, and even if it was bad, thats what 5-10 seconds max time difference. Yes the course was the same as last year but that helps my point of seeing the massive drop in time difference. And your point about the hill placement on the courses, that doesnt make a difference. If you agree that chesmonts and lehigh are very similar in elevation change, and you take into account the flat first mile at chesmonts and the hillier 2nd and 3rd miles. Your 2nd and 3rd miles at chesmonts will always be slower than that of your 2nd and 3rd miles at lehigh, no matter how fast you run them. You could run a 5:20 and a 5:25 to close out lehigh and at chesmonts you might run a 5:30 and a 5:35. It does matter how tired you are because the last mile at lehigh has one big downhill that is short lived and is fairly flat so you can't coast the 3rd mile, although it is a fast mile, you cannot coast for the whole thing as you will be outkicked. As for peaking for a more important race, this may account for a 15-20 second drop, max and thats it, there is just not enough training time between chesmonts and districts to drop substantial time.
DeleteAlso Chris, I know you have ran on the current chesmonts course at least twice, can you give some input on the course?
The course was definitely different this year, the corners on the steeplechase were cut to eliminate the 90 degree turns. But it's probably still 150 yards too long.
DeleteYes, I did run the Unionville course twice for Ches-Monts (and twice at Ches-Monts for middle school, some of the stretches of the course are the same). Some people referred to a "quicksand" year, I think you're referring to 2012 (my junior year) when it had rained for all night and morning leading into the race and the course was very muddy and slow. 2013 (my senior year) had fair conditions though.
DeleteI never considered Unionville a fast course, either for 2 mile or 5k. On paper it does look fast, flat on sports fields except for the mile in the steeple chase area. If you aren't familiar with the course, the steeple chase is literally about a mile that you run through a horse pasture with some rolling hills and long grass. But when it comes down to it, there's a week between Ches-Monts and Districts (usually, this year was an exception) and just about everybody runs at least 25 seconds faster at Lehigh, I'd say the average guy drops 40 seconds. Sure tapering and peaking and running harder for the bigger stage makes a difference, but in my mind not 30 or 40 seconds worth of difference over just one week.
When we discussed why the course might be slow every year while I was in high school we came up with pretty much two viable theories:
1. The course is long. It honestly feels like a 3.2 to 3.25 mile course and it runs like it many times. They probably do measure the course and I don't know what it measures out to be, but it feels long and the times make it look like it's long.
2. The steeple chase adds a lot of time. A mile on softer and longer grass with gently rolling hills may not sound bad, but it can be exhausting especially two miles into a race just because with every step you take the ground is absorbing more of your effort and not letting you push off as much.
Which of these theories is true? I don't know. The steeple chase definitely adds time, but how much is a mystery. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the course were say 50 meters long (adding 15 or 20 seconds) and the steeple chase added the rest of the time. Maybe hill placement does make a difference, but the hills at Unionville and at Lehigh are both in the second half of the race and beyond that I don't think hill placement makes a difference.
-Cummings
If you know xc, you know footing is a key component of how fast an xc course is. Lehigh is mowed nicely and the footing is great throughout the course. The fields on Unionville's aren't bad(not great), but the Steeplechase is taller grass with more uneven running. That takes a lot out of a runner. Both courses are 5000 meters. The hill on the steeplechase is slightly more challenging then any of the hills at Lehigh. The race usually sets up to be a bit slower. Districts will always go out faster than 5:10.
DeleteI think Chris is right with this one, the debate boils down to how much time the steeplechase takes off and the leftover time would then be accredited to a longer course, I think that the steeplechase takes off less time and you think the steeplechase takes off more time. Its a matter of opinion until we can get evidence. I would also say it is different for every runner, some people are not affected as heavily by poor course conditions as others.
DeleteThe best way to figure this out would be to have splits taken for a few years for times in the steeplechase part with the grass longer, uneven footing etc.Then, have the steeplechase mowed, smoothed etc. and take splits again and compare the results. It's just way too much effort, unless there is an easier method.
How do you think the chesmont boys will do at districts Chris?
ReplyDeleteOf the current group of guys Alex Knapp was the fastest last year at Districts with a 15:38. If anyone has a chance to match that kind of time it's gotta be Sappey. I think he could really kill this race with a good day. Beyond that several guys will benefit from a slower year for District 1. Sappey and Knapp I think will be top 10 and Diestelow as well. Swart should be fighting for a medal and can get one, but I don't think he's a lock because he really killed it at Ches-Monts and there's the question of can he replicate and more at Districts. I'd say Carmody has a pretty good shot at a medal and maybe Ryan Barton as well. Smucker, Barchet and Charlie Barton have shots at medals, but I'll predict that they fall just short and come in in the low 20's.
DeleteOn the team side, I kind of addressed this in the post, but I agree with the poster JEB. DWest is going through to states unless they totally collapse. Henderson will need to show up again like they did at Ches-Monts and they should be able to get through, but their #5 is a bit worrisome. A common standard is usually you need 5 guys under 16:45 at Lehigh to get to Hershey. You could argue D1 isn't as strong this year, but Henderson's #5 (it was Ben Berkman at Ches-Monts, with Connor McSwain and Apurva Deshmukh not too far behind) will really need a big race to meet that standard.
-Cummings
The runners do have 11 days to recover before districts.
DeleteIdk it may not seem like it now but WCH may be really strong again within the next few years. With Smucker only a freshman and Berkman a sophomore they have a bright future. WCH has a strong sophomore class but it had its share of injuries this year. From an outsider's perspective, I'd worry about them in the next few years.
DeleteWhat injuries? They have all their horses, sounds like excuses
DeleteBoth teams should make States, thanks to it being a pretty mediocre year for District 1. But neither will make top 3 at States. It's just not going to happen, but dream on boys.
DeleteDwest will win states, they have all the pieces.
Delete^ "all the pieces"
DeleteWait does anyone actually know what WCH and DWest will be like within the next few years?
DeleteNextyear Dwest is losing their 5 but replacing him with their 2 Alansky who has been out all year with lime disease.
DeleteWCH is losing their 1,2,3 and replacing them with their 6,7 and 8.
Dwest should dominate the next two years, after that who knows.
C. Barton was their 3 at chesmonts.
DeleteStill, on paper, next years dwest team beats this years dwest team.
DeleteThat is likely. Probably can't say the same for next year's Henderson team though. Think they need 2 years to be back in the mix
DeleteThe advantage of a Big Stick. Henderson had everyone chasing Russell and Barchet in practice, so they all became better. Without someone to push him in practice, I think Knapp has taken a bit of a step back.
DeleteA few weeks back someone on here said Knapp looked fat and slow. Now someone says he’s taken a step back. But the numbers don’t show that at all. I’m not referring to his weight numbers because I have no idea but his performance shows he’s probably right where he and his coach planned.
DeleteLast year he came on very strong in October. And last year at Carlisle he went 16:24, this year 16:16. Sappey beat him by 20 seconds at Carlisle this year but at Chestmonts they went head to head the entire way and he lost to Sappey by 1 second, coming in 2nd. Improved his Chesmont time over last year from 16:34 to 16:21. He actually looks like he’s gaining a step every day and is setting up nicely for Districts.
-RJJL
Last year at Carlisle Knapp fell - like a full face plant on the ground fall which surely slowed him down.
DeleteIt was discussed here earlier that the Chesmonts were in extremely favorable conditions on an altered (maybe easier?) Course.
That being said, he is not at all fat, nor is he slow. I'm assuming that was the best a 14 year old boy could come up with. Knapp looks great - I'd comfortably throw his name out there as a possible district champion.
RJJL, is that really you? Where have you been? As always, the voice of sanity.
DeleteSo I saw Knapp run recently and also noticed he is neither fat nor slow. He has one of those typical Henderson runner builds - strong and tall. Weird how that happens. And I never thought about it before^ mentioned it, but I also think Knapp should be in the conversation for district champion. Henderson has a way of peaking at the correct time.
Malvern woulda went 1 2 3 in the chesmont theyre that good
ReplyDeleteThey looked burnt out at Short.
DeleteMalvern will have plenty of time to rest for regionals
DeleteGood, they need it.
DeleteJaxson has a broken foot and Josh has not beaten any of the top three Chesmont runners yet this year. 1 2 3 is not happening. Possibly 1-2 if Malvern was healthy, but regardless you statement is wrong.
Deleteyour*
DeleteIs Hoey really out with a fracture?
DeleteDidn't see that coming(sarcasm font).
If so, hope he recovers quickly and maybe, just maybe...he'll dial back his racing/suspected over-training. Hate to see such talent go to waste.
Yeah, probably. That is if they hadn't front-loaded their season with so much intense racing. Malvern made the same mistake a lot of teams with a top shelf runner do. They blow their wad too early because they are so hyped to have everyone see them as the big dogs, except everyone forgets how long the season actually is. I don't see how Malvern is even going to make it to Nationals this year-even with a healthy Hoey. They're just not that complete.
DeleteDidn't I read someone quote younger one as saying some pro coach gives the workouts and his mom enforces them? If that's true then there in lies the problem. That's just too much at the high school level. Back off and run 15:45 instead of 15:20, it's more fun as a sport and less of a job.
DeleteMalvern will not make nationals they are way over hyped and are falling apart. They are maybe the 3rd best team in the state at best. If they were a PIAA affiliate NA and O'Hara would have there way with them .
DeleteDidn't malvern beat Ohara at Briarwood?
DeleteO'Hara doesn't peak for Briarwood, they peak for Delcos/PCL's.
DeleteHow did Malvern front load their season? They only ran 2 races in September then ran Paul Short. Yeah they won't make nationals but its not their fault they just aren't good enough
DeleteYes they did beat them and have gotten progressively worse since then Jaxson Hoey is clearly not the same since that meet, and his brother looks burnt out. That's a lot of hard racing for a freshman
DeleteThey are a good team just not the clear cut #1 that everyone is thinking right now they are the 3rd or 4th best team in PA
At least the rest of the team is racing well. So much for their professional coach. What a joke
Delete^ yup. A good coach can manage the talent of kids and the ego's.....of parents.
DeleteDisagree. Sometimes it's impossible to deal with parents especially when the coach is right out of college it might be intimidating.
DeleteDont really know the exact situation with the parents outside of what I've read here but if all that stuff is true...... then the biggest mistake malverns coach made was letting the Hoey brothers wear a team uniform if they are not part of the team.
DeleteEvery year there's at least 10 stud runners in PA. How many have made an impact at the college level? National level? Olympics? All parents need to get a little perspective.
DeleteI know of former great h.s. runners who got to college and shifted priorities(because college has a way of doing that to you). Running in college is different and often takes a back seat...or else.
DeleteLet Hoey ' s parents alone. Haven't they been villainized enough on here? I don't believe that crap. So the old man has connections that may or may not have helped the kid out. Big deal. They sound like running enthusiasts who maybe just enjoy the shared experience of running. No crime in that. Kid runs like he loves it and he has a supportive family. What's so newsworthy about that?
As for Malverns coach benching the Hoeys, remember that Malvern is not a public school. Parents pay (a lot) for their kids to attend there. Also many schools like WCH for example, the AD gets a bonus for every athlete/team that makes it to state. Even though this is high school. Money is still. In play.
DeleteIf Hoey is hurt, that's a shame, but not altogether unexpected. Kid looks like a beast when he's racing and I'm sure he doesn't slack off on that intensity while training either.
DeleteI don't see them as a contender for Nationals anyway-maybe next year though?
It's stupid to attack any kids parents, especially when you don't know them. It sounds as if they have a running background which probably helps but sometimes kids suffer when the parents push them too hard too soon. To not overdo it is as important a component to becoming a competitive runner as the rest of training. So many driven runners battle stress fractures especially early in their racing days. It's a process and usually they figure it out.
And to repeatedly rip the kids parents just comes off as sour grapes. The cool thing about running is no one can actually do it for you so at the end of the day, we are all judged by the same measure.
This whole discussions probably comes from the observation of a few that they looked tired at the end of Paul Short race. That would lead to speculation of overtraining and since they're brothers that would lead to speculation on parent or other outside influence. But it is all just that, speculation. And being is good as they are comes conversation, though probably often misguided conversation.
DeleteThree posts up probably nailed it best, the family is into it. I posted the coaches managing parents ego's remark above and I do think most coaches face that challenge at times as I've seen it on my team, and that there are many parents who should back off and let the coaches coach. But I apologize for any inference to any specific athlete or parents as I don't know them or the whole story.
I'm sorry too, no offense meant for Malvern or their runners.
DeleteCredit to Coatesville and Shanahan, but I believe WCE and GV had injuries. NO excuses, but hopefully at least one of the two can be healthy and try and get back to Rustin's level at districts.
ReplyDeleteI run for WCE and while I can not speak for GV we did not have any injuries so I'm not sure where that rumor came from.
DeleteAlansky from Dwest and Smith from Avon Grove are the only injuries
DeleteWhat happened to Smith? Will he be back for districts?
DeleteYeah, not sure what's going on with WCE. Their varsity team hasn't done much this year, but their JV is tearing it up. They took first at Paul Short and Bulldog, and 4th at Ches-Monts. However, their varsity took 10th out of 14 at Ches-Monts.
Delete^I agree with you anonymous. Their JV is doing very well. They have at least 12 guys who can go under 18:30, which is good for JV. However, lets remember they have only 1 guy going under 17:00 at the moment, Diestelow, who is only running 16:02. Whether he is saving it for districts or not is up for debate, but only having one guy under 17:00 and your 5th guy running 17:50s gets you killed in a varsity race.
DeleteWow, I apologize, someone on the WCE team must've lied to me. For GV, it looks as if they were missing Eric Wang, I am not sure if he is a varsity runner or not, and their typical 4th or 5th man, Scotty Peduto took last for them in the varsity race. Not sure if just another rumor about injuries or if GV just isn't very strong this year.
DeleteWCE 5, 6 and 7 runners have been inconsistent this year which has caused some rotation between varsity and JV. When ever guys are slotted to JV they have been motivated and turn in good races as they want to get back onto the varsity.
DeleteWCE either has 2 or 3 studs, but lacks depth, or has major depth, but no one to back uo their frontrunner. (in this case, diestelow is all by him self)
DeleteI can see how that applies to this year and last year, but what about 2012? That year they had Diestelow at 15:56, Cummings at 15:58, Jesse Rodgers and Stephen Dages both at 16:22, and their 5th Trey Crump at 16:39...not to mention their true 5th out with an injury. That year was the one recent case were they had both depth and two studs.
DeleteThey won states in 2005 and in 2006 they were 4th. I think a small sample size is being considered
DeleteIn 2012, WCE had two of their original top 7 hurt, and still had all seven under 17:00 at districts. 2013 had a strong top four (one got hurt) and no 5th (kindof like WCH). Next year they could have several runners between 16:30 and 17:00, maybe their top 7.
DeleteSome years it works, some years it doesn't.
I run for East and we have Diestelow on the brink of sub-16 at 16:02. We also have one close to sub-17, Dougherty, at 17:06 and Brennan, who I think has the potential to go sub-17, at 17:30. However, we are long past the Cummings, Diestelow, Dougherty, Crump, and Rogers days. We are rebuilding.
Delete^ and Moser. He's come a long way from barely breaking 20:00 aat Districts last year. He's at 17:25, and ran 17:44 at Ches-Monts. He could definitely go sub 17:00
DeleteThey have a nice young team. Brennan and Moser are racing very well, and Dougherty has been sick for a while now and as a result, missed quite a bit of practice. However next year, Brennan and Moser will be very fgood next year, with Dougherty not far behind. Aditionally, Sebastian Hoyos and Jared Franz have been battling severe injuries, Despite losing Diestelow, they will be much, much stronger. They have a realgood shot at top 10 in districts next year
DeleteThat's pretty ambitious for a team that just finished barely top 10 (10th) at Chesmonts. WCE always talks a good game, it's good to have confidence, but a reality check may be in order here.
Deletetwo sophmores and three juniors who would have easily broken 17 this year if it weren't for injuries/illness is a pretty good start. top 10 will be tough, but definitely possible.
Delete^^
DeleteAgree, they definitely have the pieces to be good next year, but then again how many teams could say that. That's the great thing about cross country you never know who's going to come up big at the end of the season. I don't think too many people saw Fortna and CB West coming this year, and now they look like they could be top three in the district. There's any number of examples of teams stepping up in a year when no one expects it (Rustin and Coatesville 3 and 4 in the Ches-Mont) I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the rest of this year brings.
Chris, I like your contributions to this blog. I'm not always in agreement but wish everyone could be as civil and diplomatic as you are. Regarding your comment above about needing 5 guys under 16:45 at the D1 meet to move forward; CRN's 5th guy last year was 17:01 and they placed 4th. Great Valley and DWest, 7th and 8th place respectively, had all 5 under 16:45 but did not advance.
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point about the 16:45 thing, but its a general rule of thumb. It probably applies to most teams, even though you listed 2 good examples. I Would like to look at all the teams that made states in the past 5-10 years out of D1 and see how many teams followed that rule, especially the bubble teams.
Delete16:45 is a pretty accurate cut line for your 5th runner if you don't have someone in the top 10. CRN's 5th man last year ran 16:46 at districts. If Henderson makes states this year it will be with very similar times as Pennsbury did last year, it was Pennsbury whose 5th was 17:01 but they had 2 guys under 16:00 to offset that.
DeleteNDR
Last year: 2/5 qualifying teams w/ 5 sub-16:45 (CRN 5 16:46)
Delete2012: 3/5 teams (GV 5th @ 16:46)
2011: 2/5 teams (GV 5th @ 16:46 again)...worth noting slightly slower times across the board
Trends: 5 sub-16:45 is a strong indicator, but at such a huge meet, it's best to have at least 1 frontrunner. If you have 2, like Pennsbury 2013, Penncrest 2013, and DWest 2012, you can get away with a bigger spread. Only having 1, like CBE 2013, might not be enough to get the job done.
Henderson has had 5 sub-16:45 since 2008...will this year break the streak?
In 2011 times were very slow at Districts, but I ran 16:44 as CRN's 4th man and we were 4th place.
DeleteHoly crap, you're talking about 5 guys getting under 16:45 at Lehigh? Remember the good old days (last year) when Henderson had 7 guys sub 16:00?
DeleteSomeone talked about it being a re-loading year in District 1 and with those numbers, I have to agree.
Forrest, it was a *slightly* slow year. Magaha still blasted a 15:16 or so, I believe. If you want to see a slow year, check out 2009.
DeleteAdditionally, you've mentioned your 16:44 a lot. I don't mean this as a personal attack at all - I'm simply curious about collegiate running - but why do you think you haven't improved a lot in college? Have you had injury issues?
(For the record, I think 4:35 is a nice mile PR, and I'm hoping to run around there this year)
I've got a few issues in terms of injuries over the past few years. In high school I was constantly plagued with IT Band issues and my mother who was a triathlete for a long time also had the same issues. Running 70-80 mile weeks for CRN really broke down my already weak body and I would be out for 2-3 weeks a time at least once a season. Now in college my coaches have worked on building my body up from scratch through different lifting programs, low millage (30-45 a week -- I hit 49 last week and am back down to 35 this week because my body started to wear down). I also have been doing more pool workouts, which really help fitness and it keeps my body fresh. I have had some issues racing due to an illness the past few weeks, but the week before Lehigh I ran a 5 mile tempo in 30:14 and our first mile was 6:20. I'm in good shape, but I just got to have a good race.
DeleteAs for improvements on the track I ran 2:02.12 as a freshman, which is my 800PR and faster than I ran in high school (never broke 2:03 in the open) and last season I injured my achilles and two weeks after a 5 week rehab I contracted mono and a week after I healthy from mono I was hit by a drunk driver in a car accident and broke my wrist and my coach shut me down for the season since it was mid-April. I know I've improved in college and I've run good workouts but for a variety reasons that are personal I haven't race well, especially recently. Also the workload in college is a lot heavier than high school so I'm only getting about 6-7 hours of sleep at night instead of the 8-9 I got in high school, which can make a big difference in recovery.
I'm not bashing CRN's training either. I think it works very well for a lot of runners, but my body wasn't ready to handle it, and it does happen to curtain runners. I still got a lot better under that rigorous training and injuries.
--ForrestCRN
Aw hell, Forrest-you have been through it man.
DeleteDamn, dude. I (the asker of the question) am really sorry to hear about all of that. I, too, am stuck in a cycle of injuries right now. Ran on ice last winter and strained my calf. Came back for a month, ran 2 outdoor races, and got a stress fracture in my hip. Started running again in August, but compensated for the sfx leg by doing too much work with the other one, and have now injured something in my calf and might have cost myself my first collegiate XC season. Best of luck to both of us, and I'd be really interested in personal updates via the blog about how these different methods (lifting, pool) are working out for you.
DeleteI am a big believer in runners also weight training. I know its hard for some to wrap their heads around how having a strong upper body can make you faster. But thats not the only benefit. Having arms that dont look like you just got out of Auschwitz is a plus for your running psychy.
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DeleteRunning 70-80 miles/week in high school seems absurd to me.
DeleteI think if your motivated and hungry to win there is no need for that kind of mileage. You can probably get away with 35-40/week. Its all in the quality of work you put in.
But that just me
^You're right about that. Unfortunately there are some high school programs that have a one - size - fits - all approach to coaching. But it just doesn't work the same for every runner.
DeleteLOL. I agree with lifting for xc. Auschwitz arms, I love it. Yeah xc runners not known for their beach bodies.
DeleteThe best runners all include weight training as a part of their regiment. Talk to the best High School and College coaches, they are having their guys do minor weight training.
What are all the posts on this blog done on Pacific Standard Time? Is there a way to force it to east coast time?
ReplyDeleteJust changed it. Don't know how or why it was on Pacific to begin with.
DeleteThanks,
Cummings
I don't know what happened with Shanahan and Coatesville. I run in the Ches-Mont league and they weren't very good last year (to be blunt). Did they get some good freshman or what?
ReplyDeleteNo, other teams declined.
DeleteNo. Shanahan will always be the barker of the Chesmonts. Which is not to say they may have a better than average runner once in a while. Their running programs have always been and will stay floundering.
DeleteCoatesville with their history and large student size, always has possibility. I think what you saw this year was what someone else posted. A so-so year talent wise for Chesmonts makes the sub-par ones look better.
So i posted about shanahan having a new coach, and they actually got a new one in 2013, look at the shanahan 2013 newsletter for november. Irs not lettin gv me link it on my phone, will post the link later. Its on page 4.
Delete^ What the hell are you yammering about? Pretty sure no one here gives a rats ass about the "Shanahan Newsletter". Page 4 or page 1, but thanks anyway.
DeleteI made a post about shanahan having a new coach and it was taken down, i was simply suggesting a reason for how shanahen got better. I also know some people are skeptical on this blog, so i provided a source of information.
DeleteWell they couldn't get much worse. Good luck to you and your new coach. When you win something maybe people will be interested in your secrets to success.
DeleteI actually go to WCE, I was trying to be a productive member of this blog. Relax man.
DeleteI agree with you Chris.
ReplyDeletefor the record, that is not kareem lanier,that is another unfunny troll
Delete-WCE
^says unfunny troll
DeleteWell Mr. Bangkok, the competition is really heating up this year and you seem like you could be a real difference maker. What school do you plan on attending?
ReplyDeleteWhere did my original comment go? It seems to have disappeared. No matter, I want to attend a school with a strong running program so I can continue to get better. My parents said that try might send me to a school called East. Do you know if they're any good?
Delete-Axel
What is all this jibber jabber about?
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ReplyDeleteJosh Smith is running at districts
ReplyDelete